I want to know your thoughts

[Ditty]

Ok this is a post going on from a different forum but I am curious of all of your thoughts.

Should you "force" your bird to do something?

Basically they want to know if they should ever force the bird to do something.  Like get off the computer keyboard cuz they are plucking off the keys.  Others say never force a parrot.  However I say YES.

If it is just a simple I don't want to play, or shower right now or something I don't force the issue.  But a step up command is ALWAYS a step up...period!  It is my belief that if I ask my parrot to step up, no matter what the situation they DO, without question.  I just feel there is so many instances that a parrot could be in trouble and they should step up with no issue if you ask.  You should never have to ask twice. 

So your thoughts.....

[Jadesmom]

I'm yes and no. For example, I tried the aviator harness. Mass hysteria and panic. I just put it away. I would never force them into something that scared them. But, pulling my keyboard apart or making Bella or Jade take off when they are on me nipping, absolutely. I cut their nails and towel them to do it. They all hate it, but its in their best interest when you look at the big picture. I think all things need some boundaries, be it fids or kids or whoever. Or else there would be total anarchy.

[wishforabird]

I agree totally with Jades. I also agree with you on the the "step up". what if there is a fire? or other emergency? they have to step up without a second thought.


(it is the same when i am out in the world and have to deal with other people's kids: how they don't or do deal with it when they are acting up is none of my business, BUT when it comes to endangering my personal safety(or that of my children), or damage to my property that is when I speak up and put a stop to things.) 

there has to be a line somewhere. 

[Sondra]

To Force a bird to do something like step up IF it is NOT in harms way is plain wrong. If you have to go somewhere and your bird won't step up you still can step it up by simply picking up it's feet and using praise when it stands without biting - that in my book isn't forcing a bird but reinforcing the step-up command.
IF you have an emergency and you expect that you'll be able to step up your bird with panic in your voice (it will be panicky) then you are crazy! Learn how to properly towel your bird! I am speaking from experience. We thought we had a house fire because the entire house was filled with smoke. Stop and think folks, how many animals and children do you think you can save if you can't quickly and expertly towel your birds, get them crated or into pillow cases, and out the door!?

[BuffaloParrot]

Good replies guys.  In our house we never force our Parrots unless they are in danger, damaging something such as wire chewing, paint chewing and so on.  We train them as best we can with praise, trust and patience.  Even this won't guarantee they will do what we want on command and that is their choice as long as they are not doing the above mentioned.  All undesirable behaviors are quickly ignored and redirected to a more positive.

[wishforabird]

okay, I want to explain how I do it... I kindalook first, if he is happily eating/playing or very wound up i don't bother him, I do like 10 seconds of step up so it is "automatic" it is never a force thing, he is happy to do it ..he has his foot waving in the air like "are you gonna ask me or what?" ;p

if there was an emergency, I would ask (very quickly) for a step up, if he stalls because he is afraid or whatever, then into the towel(baby blanket) he goes.  I have his carrier RIGHT there under the right side of the cage on the floor to grab in a hurry. the blanket always hangs on the corner of his cage so it is an everyday sight, and he is not afraid of it.

and you're right D, "distract and redirect" is excellent for birds and toddlers!! 

[BuffaloParrot]

Just be careful that when you distract and redirect you are not unintentionally re enforcing the unwanted behavior.  Excitement, sudden moves etc can become amusing to a Parrot and this in turn will want to make him do the undesired behavior for amusement.  Just calm and slow :glasses:

[wishforabird]

got it    thanks :)

[zimbasmom]

If you have to go somewhere and your bird won't step up you still can step it up by simply picking up it's feet     Okay go ahead and try that with a macaw or an amazon, you will get a really nice bite, what kind of bird are you doing this with?

Yes,  for saftey if my bird is in trouble or at risk of getting hurt I will "force" him to step up...anyday.

[Sondra]

The bird I do this to is a sexualy mature  male Umbrella Cockatoo. Can you massage your birds feet and legs, lift wings, spread the wings and tail feathers at any time? I've worked very hard to be able to read body language with this bird and do all those things with our U2. With a U2 you can't see the pinning of the eyes as you can in the birds you mention. I simply tell our U2 to give me a foot and he does, every time, then it's a simple matter of lifting his other foot up and off the perch. As I stated It takes alot of work & yes, you DO get bit in the beginning, but the end result is much better than trying to peel feet off whatever the bird is perched on. I've made sure I've earned the trust of this bird so I can do what needs to be done with him. Right now we're working on using a nail-file on him and do all his talons at one time instead of stopping and starting several times a day.
In an emergency I do towel, because I know my birds can tell by my voice that I'm on hyper-drive and that is when they are most likely to get hyper as well because they pick up on our emotions so well and react to them.

[steptoe91(tozie)]

aaaaarrrrgghhh! i just spent 20mins responding....and skittle erased it all....<sniff> is that an example or what?! i am riding the fence on this one. there are times when i force the issue, if one is in danger. but if there is not a safety concern or the worry of damage to property...mine... then they should have a choice, generally speaking. so much is situational. there are no set responses to every situation. maybe i force marley to get off the mantle that has some unapproved birdie items, but let him choose if he wants to go to his cage or his window. they will never think like adult humans. they wont think like 3yr olds. they are not human. what is logical to them is not to us. we have taken so much from them. you have to give them some dignity. so if they dont want to step up and i dont have a good reason for them to do so, i dont force it. if they dont want to be touched, who am i to tell them what i want is more important than what they want?
as far as an emergency, i'm not foolish enough to believe that i can predict how i'd respond. i can plan. i can do drills. but i just dont know for sure how i'd respond to an emergency. i've had a few situations where you think you'd do one thing and come to find out, that thing just isnt plausable. there are always so many factors to consider and they are just so hard to predict. even when you've had it happen, the next time may be different.

[BuffaloParrot]

Very good post Tozie!

[looniebirds]

Well, I think [oh heck I KNOW] the post she was talking about.  This girl was not hitting it off with her Senegal so she rehomed it and got of all birds a Caique!  Now, I LOVE Caiques, I have one!  But if she thinks she will ever get one to stop doing what it has set its mind to....boy oh boy, she's got another think coming!  It will take A LOT of work, and if you don't have the patience with a Senegal, how are you going to manage that with one of the most determined, stubborn species I have ever met?

I can't tell you all how many times I couldn't make Babycakes get from behind my head and ended up removing my shirt with the bird still attached to it!

[Sondra]

Tozie, Very well said. Like you we planned for an emergency evacuation, had drills, knew what we were going to do, but when the emergency came we couldn't see 6 inches in front of us! You want scared, we were. Everything worked out well in the end, but it was the very first time I had to snatch a sleeping U2 out of his cage which literaly scared the poop out of him and earned me a bite as I was transfering him to his carrier in the cold winter air! It was also the first time I had toweled him, so we had a Too afraid of towels after that. Don't forget we only had 1 bird at the time and 3 small Doxies, now we have 6 birds, 2 small Doxies and a Bullmastiff to evacuate.

[steptoe91(tozie)]

loonie, as a fellow caique parront, i know exactly what you are saying. as a matter of fact, i have another thread i just started on my headstrong caique. at times they are so single minded it is extremely frustrating. and as far as making a caique step up if he doesnt want to, not happening. i dont worry about forcing marley to step up. cause it aint happening. period. i absolutely love that little bird. he is wonderful. he is sweet. he is stubborn. he is cuddly, he is nippy. he is obnoxious. he is a bundle of contridictions. i, too, was stunned when she mentioned getting a caique. as a matter of fact, i left a post even tho i havent posted on that forum in quite some time. tho, occasionally i lurk a little.
sondra, i shudder to imagine the chaos. i know for sure it would be here. with crazy caiques, touch-me-not quakers, excitable macaws, and killer amazon...an emergency would turn into a national disaster! lol!