Breeding ???

[BrilliantFids]

Ok I am in my home town dealing with the fact that my grandpa is DYING..in fact as I am told he will be gone by  the AM. And I log on to where I am supposed to relieve my stress to read this... Yes I understand Chance you see a lot of bad things, but I see a lot of good things! I LOVE each baby I have and to this day I know where each and everyone is! I get picture updates and other than Hannah I have contracts with ALL of my babies that they will be returned to ME if they ever have to be rehomed. Some breeders are good, and sure call me a breeder if you like..I am I wont lie. I let my birds who I care about breed because I trust the people who get my babies and I trust myself with the ones I keep. Now the last time I sold a baby was a long time ago, I have lost $ and never made a dime from them. In the past yep I sold babies for very little $ even though I forked $ over for vet bills, formula...etc..

Other than wild caught parrots our dear babies have come from breeders...like it or leave it. Now I am done with this petty crap. My family needs me and I dont feel I should have to defend myself to anyone, this is me and if you cant deal with it then whatever. Wether this post was meant to be an attack or not, this site is SUPPOSED to be for all sides of parrot care..breeding, rescue, parrots in general. But its not that way anymore......

Mi Amore please keep posting MY babies for me as I would love to see them..I have to look forward to something when my whole world is falling apart.

oh and feathersandfun...heh...never have used it to sell babies. never got an email from it period.

 chance you have also had babies...sometimes things happen without meaning it too..just please keep that in mind

[BrokenWing]

There has been so many laws written and voted down by Americans for reasons galore...
The majority of Exotic animal owners claimed rights and freedom during HR669.
The bill was plagued with flaws, I will be the first to admit that, but what I learned was this.
If you ask people what is in the bill that encourages you not to support it?
They respond...okay lets remove that part...now would you support the bill...pause...no... what about this...okay..lets remove that also...NOW WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE BILL?.....
NO....
What it would come down to is this....People wish to get there hands on more Parrots in the future...they will protect Freedom and Rights...its to hell with what is happening to the birds in the wild, its to hell with the many...MANY birds that show up at shelters and rescue facilities...just as long as there rights and freedom to get there hands on more birds in the future are protected....
I read every excuse there was...
The pet industry will suffer, jobs will be lost.
We need to protect our rights and freedom all these new laws strip away our rights.
What about the companies that make bird cages and seed and such things.

I pray everyone understands where I am coming from, do all of you really think I do NOT love our birds?????
I will support any LAW that will take the Exotic Parrot off the Americans pet list...and then...its on to other countries to voice my concerns there...

A person could pick through HR669 and adjust the law and it would still have been voted DOWN...all for False Rights...and the FREEDOM to continue to abuse the Exotic Parrot.

If I were to place a new law in front of the Parrot World, a law that will be simple and to the point...
LAST GENERATION, from this day forth, NO MORE BREEDING of exotic birds, no more sale of exotic birds, extremely stiff fines and even JAIL will be enforced...
WOULD YOU SUPPORT THIS LAW?

I rest my case!!!!!!

Never....NEVER has this rescuer questioned the love "Parrot Keepers" have within there hearts for there birds...
This is not a BREEDER issue, its a MARKET issue...you can't have a breeder without a market for the product...The Exotic Parrot does not and has never been intended to be a PET...they were given wings to FLY FREE.....

Find a mirror people, have a long talk with the image staring back at you....then go look into the little eye's you love so deeply....

Bitter Sweet Love.......

Arty

P.S.
If you truly LOVE me.....you will allow me to be FREE....

[chance]

I posted just with questions, NO WHERE did you see me or anyone else attack anyone personally, I have seen a few things lately that I have not posted, nothing to do with people here, but some other things that at this time I do not wish to share thanks to our miss Amy, I had questions and this is also posted on other forums as well, I am trying to get a idea of what people really think.


and Arty, as far as the bill yes I was first against it, but not against protecting the birds, against having to put them down, I am all for the bill  it just needs to be written different,but as I said above I have seen a few things recently that have really bothered me and it got me thinking more, and I can say I will sign the next bill !!

[BuffaloParrot]

First I will say I did not target any members or attack them.  When I see breeding I get emotional and wonder if the main population understands the problems out there.  I value all the remarks on this thread and am learning also.  I hope no ones feeling were hurt as that was not the intention.  We are all here to learn and share.  Sometimes we may have slight disagreements, but it gets magnified when written on a board.

[plantsandbirds]

OK - I'll take a chance and respond.

1) first why are you breeding? I generally allow my little Zebra finches to have one clutch per year.

2)Do you keep the babies or sell them?I keep them.

3)Do you think your birds enjoy breeding ?The finches have an incredibly strong instinct to breed...I don't believe enjoyment is what they experience.

4)Or do you enjoy the babies ?My finch babies are valued members of my family.

5)Do you realize the serious situation we are in right now with un-wanted birds?Very much so.

6)have you ever visited a bird shelter and seen the numbers of unwanted and abused birds?Yes.

7)do you read my posts in regards to the numbers of birds coming in and the abuse going on?Yes

8)have you watched the videos on the plight of these beautiful creatures?Yes.  I also subscribe to "Just Finches" a finch and softbill magazine from New Zealand.  The plight of wild finches, finch breeding and conservation are discussed at length here.

9)Why do you breed then ask what to do?I do not do this.

10)do you truly love your birds and have their best interest at heart ?Absolutely.

[thetim53]

There is a major disconnect here. How can you say that without breeders there will be no parrots left in one generation when the rescues are overflowing with them?
The idea is that if you take only parrots that are rescues and rehomes there will be less business for the breeders. Even if you take babies from those you consider 'good' breeders that still means there is one less home for a parrot in need.
I understand the urge; you want a cute little baby you can raise up the way you want to. Much less trouble than going to a rescue and taking over someone else's problem. Whose needs are you satisfying by this: yours or the birds? Do you want to be a companion or a pet owner?
 

[angelicarboreals]

*Sigh*. I told myself I would not get involved in this mudslinging, but I wanted to voice my opinion about the whole matter, because frankly, I don't know where I stand anymore, especially since working in rescue this summer.

In order to truly, truly, truly fix the problem with overpopulation of parrots one would have to go back in time and stop the first person who ever kept a parrot as a pet. Americans were far from the first people to see the beauty in parrots, in fact, the Romans regularly brought African Greys home as pets from their long journeys. People visited the Romans, the Egyptians, etc. and saw the birds they were keeping as pets and decided to go and purchase one themselves. For some people it became a livelihood- they saw the demand in captive parrots and needed to feed their family, so they became trappers. In some countries, especially among indigenous people in the Amazon rainforest, this is still the fact. It is slowly changing, but it is a fact. When a person is born into a poverty stricken environment, they are going to do what they can to feed their family. Only for those who are more fortunate in their lifestyles can they afford to worry about conservation.

Of course, once those birds got here, breeders set out to breed parrots in captivity- for the love of birds, for money, for whatever reason that person wanted to pursue that avenue. Unfortunately, more than likely it was not originally known the lifespan of these birds (heck, they were being fed seeds, so they did have short lifespans at first) but over time the diet for captive parrots improved and so did their lifespan. More and more people got interested in breeding parrots, the birds already alive started living longer, and soon an overpopulation problem developed. Do I think breeding should continue? Probably not. Especially among the birds who are overbred and that pose a significant challenge to house (cockatoos). I am not going to sit here and lie and say that I got involved with parrots many years ago for any other reason than I thought they were beautiful and cool to own. However, over the years my attitude has changed and that is why there is not a single bird in my flock from a breeder. I have said it before, and I will say it again- if I could send my birds back to the wild I would, but that is not a possibility and I feel that with me I can offer them the best home outside of the wild. At least with me they can have good food, water, attention, and toys. I cannot guarantee that if they go to live with Joe Blow down the street.

Whether or not breeding is stopped completely, smuggling is still going to occur. In Mexico, that is some people's livelihood. That leads me to the point that if you think American's keeping of birds is so horrible, you should visit other countries and see how they keep their pet birds. In Mexico, most Amazons are kept in tiny round cages with nothing but hard corn, etc. to eat and they are constantly poked at. In the Middle East, instead of clipping a birds wings they chain the bird to a stand and the bird spends its whole life on that one playstand with a chain around its foot. Yes, I am sure that there are some people that keep their parrots in nicer conditions, but in other countries vet care and whole companies dedicated to the wellbeing of birds is not an option at all. One other parrot forum I visit has at least one post a week from out of country bird owners who do not have access to medical care for themselves much less vet care for their animals asking what to do about their sick bird.

Breeding more birds that you yourself cannot provide for is contributing to the problem. Period. Someone who cannot afford to keep the birds that they themselves have and gives them away but still breeds more babies contributes to the problem. Period. People who buy from breeders and do not try to find a rehome is contributing to the problem. Period. People who own parrots and do not feel that it is important to educate at every opportunity is contributing to the problem. Period. There is no easy answer to a centuries old problem. Personally, I support some form of licensing to keep parrots and especially to breed. However, just like with HR669, this is not the right time to implement such measures. We as a country are floundering in budget crises, children who are going hungry, and old people who cannot get life sustaining medications to live because they are too expensive. We need to fix the problems of humanity before we go about policing the idea of keeping exotic pets. Oh, and I also have to mention that if anyone really thinks that HR669 is really about the animals you really need to do your research. There is no law that has ever been passed without an ulterior motive, and you better believe that HR669 is not without it either. There is much truth behind the fact that it would cause millions in this country to lose their businesses and cause people to go bankrupt.

I will shut up now.

[chance]

( Quote)          Breeding more birds that you yourself cannot provide for is contributing to the problem. Period. Someone who cannot afford to keep the birds that they themselves have and gives them away but still breeds more babies contributes to the problem. Period. People who buy from breeders and do not try to find a rehome is contributing to the problem. Period. People who own parrots and do not feel that it is important to educate at every opportunity is contributing to the problem. Period. There is no easy answer to a centuries old problem. Personally, I support some form of licensing to keep parrots and especially to breed(Quote)



I could not agree more.

[Heartlets]

...this whole thing is kind of like how the world is flooding in HUMAN overpopulation. The worlds MOST dire problem. does anyone ever stop to think of that?? no because they're too caught up in their own selfishness in just wanting to have a baby. not thinking about the consequences and what it's doing to our planet.

Stop HUMAN overpopulation, and it stops PET overpopulation.

[Heartlets]

not to mention it stops an even worse problem. LOSS OF ANIMAL HABITAT due to HUMAN OVERPOPULATION.

[macawlover2]

Well said, Heartlets! I completely agree with all 3 of your posts!
And, before I blow up, I'm going to stop posting in this thread. Just precautionary measures.  ;)

[Debz]

Here's my question, before we continue this thread: Are we (this forum) evolved and mindful of each other's individuality to be able to continue talking about this topic and still remain friends?   ???

[angelicarboreals]

Heartlets, you had the guts to say what I wanted but didn't. That is one of the many reasons I will not have children.  afro.gif

[sophiemae]

Yes, Debz...I think we can. We all must take everyone's opinions on this thread as in any other thread and evaluate it. We can decide if it is useful or if it is not useful to ourselves. In anything there is always much learning to be found if one only looks for it. We will all continue to have our own opinions on this matter, just as in any other matter such as human over population that Heartletts thouched on. That could throw a great debate here as well with just as many supporters and non-supporters. The key is to open your mind to think outside the box and decide if what you have been doing or supporting should change in anyway, if you should let yourself grow and change or simply be happy with where you are at in your beliefs. Remember these are opinions and not personal attacks, take it as such.

AB~ I couldn't have said it better, very well put together opinions  AddEmoticons04239

Heartletts you too  AddEmoticons04239 on your last 2 postings

[BuffaloParrot]

I would hope everyone can talk about this with no hard feelings, etc.  The main purpose of this forum is for all to learn.  I think we all have in this thread and more.  There are many good statements and opinions here.  The conclusion I have come up with is education and continued learning by all, on humans and what our roll is on earth, parrots and many other things.  life is a learning experience and no matter how old you always will keep learning.  Not all see it this way but at least all here on this forum does! knuppel2.gif