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The Lilacine Amazon!

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grey782163
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2014, 08:47:13 pm »

Interesting, none of the BTM breeders that I have spoken to here in Florida have said they were not going to work with them anymore. If they did, there would be many BTMs going for cheap prices as breeders liquidated their holdings to make room for other less regulated species.

The interstate permits will be issued once the breeders start forming CBPs. Once the CBP is approved, all members can apply for permits. Since the listing only took effect this summer, this is not unexpected.

Just to be clear, Cites and the Endangered Species Act are two wholly different things. CITES is an international treaty among signatory nations and the appendix listings are handled by the international committee. The Endangered Species Act of 1972 is a law of the United States that takes into account, among other things, the CITES appendix listing of a proposed species.
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2014, 09:33:07 pm »

‘Endangered’ Label Restricts Sales of Blue-throated Macaw
Posted: Oct. 18, 2013, 3:05 p.m. EDT



By Ken Niedziela

Selling blue-throated macaws across state lines will be outlawed as of Nov. 4, three weeks after the bird was listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act.

The rule is part of an effort by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service to save a parrot species whose numbers in its native Bolivia are estimated at less than 500. Opponents, however, argue that the sales restrictions will have no impact in Bolivia given that the South American country already bans the bird’s capture and export.

Not all movements of the blue-throated macaw will be illegal in the United States. Private and commercial breeding efforts and the bird’s sale to a resident of the same state may continue unabated, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council reported.

 Blue-throated macaw
Blue-throated macaws, like other parrot species, are monogamous and tend to mate for life, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service pointed out it its report.
In addition, a permit may be issued for a bird’s sale or commercial use if the activity is for scientific research or to enhance "the propagation or survival of the species,” the Fish & Wildlife Service stated.

The blue-throated macaw is both rare and expensive. Breeders and pet stores typically price individuals at $2,000 or more.

David Lombard, owner of Bird Farm in Poland, Ohio, lists a male for $2,295. The rule change means Lombard will stock one less macaw species because he’s not about to file for a permit.

"Most of my sales are Internet and across state lines,” Lombard said.

His most popular macaw, the green-winged, sells for $1,799 and comes with no regulatory strings attached.

"I don’t deal with any bird that needs a CITES permit or anything like that,” Lombard said, referring to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. "I don’t need any more work than I already have.”


The Fish & Wildlife Service’s new rule is shortsighted, said Genevieve Wall, legislative vice president with the American Federation of Aviculture (AFA). The Austin, Texas, group counts bird breeders, owners, veterinarians and pet store owners among its members.

"It’s a terrible decision,” Wall said. "It will harm the blue-throated macaw’s chances of species recovery.”

The reason, she said, is that animal species bred in a confined region typically don’t do well.

"When you breed birds and you can’t sell them across state lines, you wind up with a stagnant breeding gene pool in your collection, and eventually you’re producing bad birds,” Wall said. "You’re slowly reducing the ability to produce healthy specimens, and eventually the breeding will stop.

"If people can’t sell the progeny they don’t need in their breeding programs across state lines, the breeding will come to a halt,” she added.

The 1992 Wild Bird Conservation Act banned the U.S. import of parrots caught in the wild. The prohibition left captive breeding as the only legal way to sustain U.S. populations of birds such as the blue-throated macaw, AFA stated in a 19-page document filed during a 60-day comment period on the proposal.

The interstate sales ban won’t improve the bird’s numbers in Bolivia, AFA wrote.

Listing the bird as endangered "is nothing more than a feel-good proposal that suggests the U.S. is ‘doing something’ to help this species in the wild,” the group stated.

The Fish & Wildlife Service rejected opponents’ calls for a sales exemption, stating that the bird’s endangered status mandated a ban.

The listing was not a hasty decision, the agency added.

"We reviewed the best available scientific and commercial information, we contacted species experts and we diligently searched for the most current information on this species,” the Fish & Wildlife Service stated in its final rule. "After careful consideration, we conclude that this species meets the definition of an endangered species under the act.”

Wall warned that the blue-throated macaw is following in the footprints of the golden conure, Lear’s macaw and Spix’s macaw—rare species subject to similar trade restrictions.

"Few U.S. aviculturists still work with the golden conure because they cannot sell their progeny,” AFA stated in its comment to the Fish & Wildlife Service. "There is little trade in these birds, and as a result, there is no longer much breeding of these birds in the U.S.”

Pet retailers and even bird owners share responsibility for the restrictions, Wall noted.

"They are basically clueless to these issues,” Wall said. "We explain to them the details, but they just don’t seem to either care or get it.

"We’ve been asking pet retailers and pet owners for years to send comments when these things come up, and they don’t,” Wall added. "We’re almost at the cliff, and we’re going to fall off it if this doesn’t stop.”

It seems that the only time you comment on anything I write George is to disprove what I say.  think Granted I don't have your vast knowledge of breeding and such in the parrot world.  headhammer Granted I misspoke, rather wrote when I added that they are on the Cites I list.  bugeye I did read that on an article recently and that is where I got my info. If I can remember where I found that at I will reread it and if it says that I will post it here.  sad8

Please take note of the bold type close to the top where a breeder in Ohio tells about his plans to stop breeding due to the act. I saw on a site of one breeder in Oregon they state basically the same reason for no longer raising and offering the BTM for sale. My breeder of the one I am getting has told me she cannot sell the ones she hatched this year and she has reduced her price considerably. She told me other breeders are doing the same thing since there are only so many birds one can find homes for within their state. Florida breeders may not be facing the same dilemma, but some of the other breeders are and will stop selling the BTMs due to the new act! I did not say all breeders of the BTM are stopping their breeding, I said many of them. I guess I should have corrected that to read, "A small handful", but since I don't know the exact number of breeders facing this I would have mis-wrote yet again.  :faint:
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2014, 10:14:07 pm »

It was nothing personal De'Andrea, I have the utmost respect for you. There was inaccurate information and I just posted  a clarification. I'm sorry if you took it personally, that was not my intention.
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2014, 10:23:34 pm »

‘Endangered’ Label Restricts Sales of Blue-throated Macaw


Pet retailers and even bird owners share responsibility for the restrictions, Wall noted.

"They are basically clueless to these issues,” Wall said. "We explain to them the details, but they just don’t seem to either care or get it.

"We’ve been asking pet retailers and pet owners for years to send comments when these things come up, and they don’t,” Wall added. "We’re almost at the cliff, and we’re going to fall off it if this doesn’t stop.”


This is the single most important thing in this article. When a species is proposed for listing in the ESA, it is opened to public comments. That means everyone that owns a bird too. The groups who have been pushing parrots for listing on ESA are the animal welfare groups: PETA, HSUS, etc. They have petitioned to have species listed that are listed as Least Concern by IUCN. Their sole purpose is to restrict ownership. It has absolutely nothing to do with conservation. The ESA does nothing to protect exotic species as it only carries weight in the US and US territories. The Wild Bird Conservation Act of 1992 closed the door to the import of exotic birds. American aviculture is no threat to the wild populations, except in a very few widely publicized cases.
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